Podcasts

Intro

Hi, and welcome to Decoding AQ, helping you to learn the tools mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever changing world.

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Ross  

Hi, and welcome to our next episode of Decoding AQ. Today, I have for you a special human being. His name is Tony Martignetti. He's based in Boston. And he talks about navigating leaders through change. And this is something that you've been fascinated with for a couple of decades. So welcome.

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Tony  

Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Such a fan of your work and adaptability in general. It's so it's such an important topic.

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Ross  

It is, isn't it? For life, I mean, this reality of going through life the things we face the challenges we face and doing it in a way in which we can navigate. I just love that word to navigate change. It’s a beautiful way of just conceptually thinking about it. And I want to take us back, Tony to I've done a bit of homework, to do my internet stalking, I know we've spent some time together as you went through the certification with us at AQ, but you started out life as a financial analyst, and a lot in finance, over a decade in pharma, various different pharmaceuticals sort of going through different finance and business. What led you into that in the first place, Tony?

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Tony  

Yeah, that's a great question. And for me to answer that question, I may have to go a little further back to then bring you forward. So I was a creative child who loved to draw and paint. In fact, I was big on creating environments and worlds that I put on canvas, and I would paint rooms that had different feelings and emotions to them. I don't know what I was thinking at the time. But apparently, I was very forward thinking because it's a bit about what I do now. But I was, I had this creativity and ultimately, a lot of my environment was shaped towards, well you need to make a living, you need to work hard, you need to find a way to find a craft or a profession that's going to put you and set you up for success. And creativity and painting and drawing all that stuff's not going to do it. So find a real job.

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So that led me down this path of first pursuing the idea of getting into becoming a doctor. So I was a pre med major, I wanted to be radiologists in fact. So I came from the arts into the sciences. I love the sciences, I had this curiosity for all these different things. But then I realized I had lacked this ability to really connect with the chemistry part, understanding chemistry, what have you. And during that period, I thought, “Okay, well, what is the fundamental piece of business? What is the Language of Business? And what is something that I can use a tool no matter where I go?”

And that's when I fell into this world of finance because everyone needs to know how money is managed, how money can be used to unlock a business's potential, really. And so I fell into that. And that's what I did for almost 25 years. I was in a career where I was using this fundamental tool. But on this deep down, there was always this person who saw people, saw emotions, was empathetic, and had a creative person inside who was just dying to get out. And I think a lot of people saw that in me, but I constantly was kind of saying, ‘Well, this is not who I am. I'm a finance person, I deal with numbers.”

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Ross  

It's interesting, isn't it? You use the phrase, I fell into it. And I had an interview last week where someone said exactly the same about HR, they just fell into it. And as they were describing it, I said, “Well, you have to be on the road where the hole is to fall into it in the first place.” And it was just that of we think we fall into it, but actually, it's a series of events that we set up, that might not have been completely aware to us at the time, that enabled us to be at the precipice of that hole to fall into. And then you described about this sense of maybe what was always inside you and creative. I guess if Minecraft had been round, and you were growing up, that would have been the space for you, creating these worlds of different environments.

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And I guess my next kind of follow on to that is so a world understanding the currency of business, the language of business in finance, then getting to this place of people, and creativity and really looking at and wanting to understand and unlock not just the potential of business, but then the shift to unlocking the potential of people. And that kind of shift in the last few years more intentionally. Was there a trigger that did that? Was it just the young Tony, finally getting control of the direction? Or was there a particular event that happened for you, Tony?

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Tony  

Yeah, I'd like to share that particular event. But there's one thing I wanted to pick up on, and is the nuance of how you described how you picked up on my story. And maybe I'll share this little insight before I tell you that moment. I think the decisions that, you talked about the falling into this space, is that a lot of my decisions were based on logic, using my thinking, using my head. And what I've realized now that I really stepped into this moment of thinking about this is that I wasn't using my heart to drive my decisions, I was using my brain.

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And when you connect the two together, and you start to make decisions from that place of what does my heart want, what does my soul want from me, then things start to shift. And I think I really connected with that deeply until much later on in my path. So I think that's where I continue to lead my life with my head. And it got me in trouble. Because I started to get burnt out. I had depression, I had moments that were really dark in my life. I won't go into the dirty details of that. But ultimately, it was a very, dark period of my life where I was on the outside people saw me as a successful person who was making great things happen in the biotech space, which really serves patients and does amazing things in the world. But ultimately, here I was dying inside. And I found a way out, there was a lot of different things that I therapists, meditation, a lot of tools that I grasped onto including, like, I would say, an unhealthy amount of self-help books.

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Ross  

An unhealthy amount of self-help books, that's a beautiful oxymoron. I like that.

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Tony  

Truly. But the true changing point was I built this myself out of that, I got myself out of that valley, and started to climb up out of that place. And ultimately, what I found was, I was still not satisfied, I was still in this world of the corporate world. I find myself sitting in this boardroom of a biotech company. And feeling as though like something's not settled me here, I'm seeing these leaders who are not leading with their heart, really, they're not inspiring people. What they're doing is they're trying to protect their image making themselves look good. And it really made it clear when I looked around the room and saw these people all checked out, looking at their cell phones, kind of like rolling their eyes and saying “This again, this is happening again.”

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And I thought to myself, like, “I think I'm done, I think I've reached my point where I can no longer collect a paycheck, and just phone it in,” to use that analogy, phone it in. So I decided at that point that I'm going to get up, I'm going to walk out, and I'm going to leave the room right now. Very scary, no plan. But I said, in order for me to change this room, how leaders show up, I need to leave the room. And I did. And that was the start of the next chapter of my life. It was a moment that defined me for who I wanted to be for the rest of my life.

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Ross  

It's interesting, you talk about this sense and what I had running through my mind as you were talking was, whose lives are we living? Are we living the life that our environment has laid in front of us, parents and peers when we get a sense of belonging, contribution, applause, that gives us a pathway. And at some point, for many people we realize is that pathway in flow with my whole self? You talked about your heart and mind in terms of consciousness to that flow. 

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And often it takes dark moment, in order to see a potential future or see nothing else than change because you can no longer continue. That just okay, is still okay. But it needs to be not okay, before we go forward. And I guess that moment that you talked about, this beautiful, in a valley, calling out and this sense of to be a leader, had to get out of the room, had to change my environment in order to adapt and be somebody new with a new identity. And that courage and bravery. Just tell me a little bit about, what happened when you made that decision to be out of the room? What changed in you and what changed around you, when you left the room?

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Tony  

Yeah, it's such a great question. And you bring up so many things. I think the questions you ask, there's also an underlying feeling of what is on my mind about this. So first and foremost, I'll say that, the first thing I had to do is say like, “What the heck am I doing? What do I need to do at this very moment to start thinking about the process of creating the thing they need to create?” And I started questioning myself at that moment to say, “Who am I to do this? Why am I called to do this?” And I started to ask myself, all those questions. And I really kind of dug deep. You've heard of the five why's, I have my own personal journey into asking myself the five why questions? Why me? Why now? Like, why, why, why? And kept on asking why until I got to the point where I said, ultimately, what I really want is I want to make sure people come to work, they feel inspired, they feel like they can have a fulfilling life. And they can feel as though they're not wasting their time going to work by just collecting a paycheck that they can ultimately unlock their full potential.

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And so when I got to that core of what it was behind it, then it made things a little easier for me to say, “Okay, now, all I need to do is figure out how I can be the vehicle for that, how I can be the one to make that possible.” And coaching became that thing almost immediately. But I had to figure out, how do I do that? How do I overcome all the imposter syndrome, all the challenges around that? When you have a really strong reason to do what you do, though, it really makes it possible. Because you come back to that point of hope is that, I know there's hope around this. I know there's a possibility around this. The one thing I wanted to share was this element of like how the prior me had adapted to the environment that I was living in. And it's funny how I come to realize that we are such an adaptable species as people and we adapt to toxicity. And till that moment comes when we say, “Wait a minute, wake up, like you have now made yourself comfortable with living in toxicity, and that's not okay.”

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Ross  

Yeah it’s that element on the side that's talking about coping. Within adaptability and resilience, it's to cope. And we might transmogrify ourselves into a creature that when we step outside is ugly. It was a nature of survival, of coping, of those things, and you changed yourself into something that wasn't beautiful. But at the time was just maybe incremental, we didn't see it, it happened over time, it was the slow Chinese torture of the drip, drip, drip. And we cannot then observe the mirror image and you talk about the prior you, and being able to identify our own journeys as different individuals, our past selves, our current selves and our future selves.

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And one of the things that's a very hard thing to do is then to share your story, to try and inspire others. And you shared just quickly before and I felt a real emotional state from you of pride and excitement and various things of “Hey, hey, I got some good news for you. I got some good news. I can't wait to share it. But I've got my book published.” And a couple of weeks ago climbing the right mountain, navigating the journey to an inspired life, now there's no surprise that in your mind you were talking about this valley I was in it, I was climbing out and all of these things. Tell me a little bit about what inspired you to then share and put that in a book, because it's not an easy thing to do is it, Tony? It’s tough, tough, hard graph to get through. So real congratulations and tell me what inspired you to put it into a book?

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Tony  

Yeah, what I found is as I was getting on in my career as a coach, I was finding that there was so many things I wanted to share with people and so many things I was hearing from the people that showed up at my door that I wanted to kind of put into a vehicle to share with others. And the book became this thing that was piecing together from different elements. And I said, “You know what, I think it's time for me to put voice to all this, to share my story, to really model the way for others to because ultimately, what I wanted to do is to not hold punches back, about how to show up, and how to lead your life in different way. It's funny how the tagline is an interesting thing, it says navigating your journey to an inspired life. An inspired life is a tough thing to swallow. When people see that they're probably thinking, “Oh, my God, is that like some Instagram inspired life like, oh my gosh, #inspired.”

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That's not what we're after here, we're after a life that's meaningful to you. We're after a life that gives you some meaning that allows you to connect to an inner reason to be and how to show up in the world. And I think that it all came from this fact that when people are climbing the wrong path, they might be doing it for the wrong reasons, based on what other people define as what success and fulfillment looks like. So it's really connecting with what I always say is inspired purpose, the purpose that you're here for, the reasons you want to climb in the first place. And that's the one thing that I really connected with deeply in this book is to say, if you don't like who you're turning out to be right now, maybe it's time to pause and check in with yourself about the path you're on. Maybe it's time to really redefine your path around what you think success is for you, on your own terms, not what everyone else thinks it should be.

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Ross  

I want to dig in a little bit to inspire this means something to you. You know, it means something to you and your business in coaching, in the book, in all of these things and inspires you said is this another hashtag of tight peace, and to inspire is to breathe in, to breathe in. And you've had a bit of a journey. And I'd love you to just follow me a little bit in this questioning because I want to link two things together.

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So I want to link the to inspire and what connection you have with that word, in your business and within the book. And also you spent some time and I think you might still be there in terms of dealing with psychological safety, as a trainer, and that organization, the fearless organization. And I wonder what your thoughts are around to inspire what that means to you, and then link it a little bit for me into psychological safety. Because I'm intrigued by those two things personally, and I'd love your thoughts on that.

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Tony  

It's a great question. And honestly, I don't think I've ever had someone ask me in that way. So I'm thrilled that you did. I mean, first of all, let me start with this thought about the inspiration. I mean, inspiration is such an important concept that people think, “Oh, inspiration, that's great.” But it's at the center of how we walk through our day. I mean, you need to be inspired to be able to inspire other people. And it's not something that you just have, and you just kind of stick that it just stays with you. It's almost like building a muscle. And it's something you have to train yourself to find inspiration in little things, to find ways to continue to, to find the things that connect you with your purpose. And I think one of the things I say often and this is where things people lose me some time is that inspiration is a communication with your soul's purpose. And so when you see more of…

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Ross  

Say that again, just pause and say that again for us, slowly.

Tony  

Inspiration is a communication with your soul's purpose. So when you are inspired…

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Ross  

Let people just take that internally because that's a really profound piece. And often in these conversations we're so quick to go through for the next bit and the next bit of a story but let's just let's breathe that in of inspiration as being a communication with our soul's purpose. I think that's beautiful. Sorry, I just cut your flow. But I really feel that something people can just take a moment with. Please carry on.

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Tony  

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Because it is something where it's in those moments of silence, that it truly shows up and you start to connect the dots, between your inspiration and your soul's purpose. Think about it this way, when you're going through your day, and you find yourself all of a sudden, like kind of running on fumes, and all of a sudden you feel this like, “I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing.” And you pause, and you take a moment away from your running around. And you think about, “Why did I start, what was my intention for today? What was my intention, what got me up out of bed today?” And you start to reflect back and think back to the things that really light you up. And this is the thing that starts to become the cut through the noise of your day. That's the signal that inspiration is sending you and saying, “Yeah, connect with that.”

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I worked in the biotech industry for so many years. And one of my leaders who I always admired is Henri Termeer. He's since passed, but he used to always say, “It's all about the patients. It's all about the child who's waiting for this therapy to be approved, that's going to save their lives.” And when you think about that, and you get so inspired by this one thing you can do, one more spreadsheet, one more number, one more clinical trial, you keep on moving forward. But you have to get silent to remember, “Yeah there's a person behind all this. And that's the person I’m doing this for.”

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I want to now connect the dots back to psychological safety. And what I think is important is that in order for you to be able to get people to feel safe in a space, to feel like they have the ability to do what they want to have their voice, you have to get them to feel, first of all, safe. To be able to share what's lighting them up, what's truly on their heart, and in their minds. And you have to create that container for them. And if they don't feel like they can be themselves, they can't share from their heart then ultimately, what happens is, there's a big blockage, to truly getting that connection, and innovating, and really kind of unlocking any of the potential the people in team. So that safety you create, and that's why they call it fearless because fearless means that people are able to really be themselves fearlessly. And I think that's the power of using inspiration as a key to unlock that. It starts with that.

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Ross  

I’m really grateful of your insights and connections, because there's a lot of talk around psychological safety, and it shows up in a variety of ways. And it's this balance between the practicality and getting so engrossed in the psychological elements of stuff, into the academic to then well, how does this really show up? Is this about people sharing? Well, we can share, but for maybe many years, you weren't sharing you, you were sharing a version of you. And so for me the connection here is where inspiration and psychological safety come in, is you can share your authentic self, not just share, you can yes share, you can create psychological safety, you can have no judgement, you can do those things. But are you sharing the masked version? Are you sharing that because you're just a little bit conscious, maybe not as much but about your environment? Or are you, you in its full glory of those things?

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And I think inspiration has a lot to do with that. And I think leaders, certainly throughout my career, as I've seen them is they feel the pressure themselves,of how they perceive their need of them showing up, whether it's challenging of their own vulnerability, or to be humbled to not have answers, to do all of these things. And throughout the last couple of decades, this sense of what an identity of a leader has, and for a leader to have psychological safety and to be themselves, often that was then in the coaching, behind the closed doors, in the council, in the other areas and it never got to show up. And it's what excites me about your work, particularly in terms of getting in flow, getting close to our soul communication to this consciousness to unlocking the true versions of somebody. And that's not easy, right? That takes a whole load of work.

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And in terms of why you're doing what you do in the world, is obviously a piece of all of these stories, these events that you've gone through. But tell me, Tony, in 12 months time, what will the manifestation of Tony 2.0 or 3.0, or this published author, on his podcast working with leaders going through change. What does Tony look like? What does he do? How does he behave? What kind of adaptions do you need to do in the next 12 months, 18 months to be the version of yourself that you're trying to be? Just walk me through a little bit of that, because I know you're somebody who deeply reflects now and thinks about his thinking. So take us through some of the things you've got on your own roadmap to navigate your own future.

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Tony  

I love this. It's funny because I continue to lean into the spaces that I feel like I need that I would not need but I want to really embrace more of and there's this element of getting people into really seeing the connection between the arts, and business and science and converging those areas together in some, almost like a jazz ensemble, where we all kind of connect. And so I continue to see myself getting, playing with that area. One of the things that I really want to create for people is this ability to experience art in a different way to see things in a different way by being more experiential. I mean, we're going into a world where, sure, virtual reality was one thing, but there's art pieces that are immersive.

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I just went to this experience this past weekend, where I was at, I went to go see a piece of work at the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, called “All the Flowers are For Me”, and it's this metal box, when you shine a light inside the middle of the box, the entire room is lit up with these beautiful patterns. And it just is such a great analogy about how like, just shining a light in the middle of something illuminating a box changes the whole meaning of the box is. And you're now any person walking in that room is part of the canvas. And I think it's such a great way to experience life is to see that, like, one minute, it's this, next minute is that. And any person can be illuminated and shifted from just changing one thing. And so the long-winded answer to say that, I want to lean into more experiences that immerse people deeper into themselves. And that's just not the people but it’s myself.

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Ross  

That's a really lovely story of this just sense of so many meanings inside there, shining a light in something, to create what's inside that can then have beauty around, and that the environment can be part of that beauty. So if we think about this from an organization and people perspective, that how might we be able to shine lights inside somebody for their art, for their unique ability, for their aura to expand. But not only that, they're isolated but the whole environment can be part of that artwork that jazz ensemble. And that's just a beautiful picture and kind of world I'd like to live in Tony. A world where people are emitting their light that dances and interacts with the people around them, and might spark off something else.

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Let me tell you a quick, quick story, Tony. So these days, we did a workshop session, all around building keynotes. And there was one section that I was leading all around igniting emotions. So what is the emotion you want your audience to feel? And at what stages? And I was talking about this and one of the participants reflected back and she said, “What you just said really resonated with me in the fact that I'm not trying to create that emotion for them. It's actually inside them already. And I want to release it.” This is how I described emotional work is that it lives inside them, you just have to give them the ability for that to shine bright, and come through, through your stories, through your pieces. And when you tell him that it just really came to life in a full technicolor wave for me, of how powerful emotion is. 

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And I want to loop us back to where you started, where you were living a life that was governed by your brain, by your mind, by rational decisions. And at some point, there was a fork where you've gone so far you felt out of alignment, and a reconnection to your heart and consciousness, your icky guy, your life's purpose. You had to reach an event to see that, how might you be able to get people earlier upstream? What are some of the signals that people could look out for before they're at the bottom of the valley? Before they're at that maybe they don't need the burnout, they don't need the absolute bottom, that you might be able to come upstream. So think about and talk and maybe you've observed it in others throughout your coaching work? What are some of the early signals Tony, before the valley of despair, before the base point that you observed in you that others might be able to recognize early?

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Tony  

I love that you bring this up. Because first of all, I think there's so many insights from this in the book, as well as the things that picked up along the way. And the starting point is really look at your week ahead. You look at the week ahead, and you say to yourself, “Gosh, there's nothing about next week that I'm even excited about. There's nothing about tomorrow that lights me up or like that I'm looking forward to,” if you start to live your life, just like hoping for “Oh I’ll be happy when I get to that next thing, or when I get that thing,” then there might be a sign there that you're not living for today, you're living for some an uncertain future.

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It's great to have goals. And it's great to plan for things that in the future, that's awesome. And it's definitely not a sense of like selling yourself short in any way, shape, or form. But you have to be happy in the moment. And in your current days. And if you can't connect with something in this moment that's fulfilling you and you finding some way to be feeling good about yourself, then you need to kind of adjust course a little bit and see how you can bring some of that back in. It's not an easy life, no one has an easy, well I’m not saying nobody. Most of us do not have an easy life. And that's not what we're after here. But we're looking for is a life that we can be happy to live in, in the current moment.

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Ross  

A life happy to live in, and that's by design. I like that kind of thinking of, a lot of life coaches and all of these people who design your life and all of these things, but the reality of bringing light, what lights you up? This box was shining light in it lights up and it emits it. So think about tomorrow, the next week, what's there that is lighting you up? Think about yesterday in the last week, what did light you up? And that's a great piece of insight there, Tony, and advice for people that they can do right now. They can just take a moment and really think about the connection to me what's lighting us up?

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And I think we've come and I hope you agree way beyond and forward the perhaps 80’s and 90’s and all of this sort of no pain, no gain, kind of “Oh you have to feel pain in order for it to be good.” You go to the gym you need pain, you go to work you have to feel pain in order for it to be good. I think we're way beyond that now. I think we're in a place where we can balance that, yes, there are things that are painful and they're worthy of us showing up and using all of our grit, using all of our skills, using team support, using those things to go through challenge. But that shouldn't be without light. It shouldn't be that we have to face challenge in the dark. We can face a challenge, but one where there's internal and external light within there.

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I wonder if you could share a story of perhaps, working with so many different leaders in all sorts of areas. What they're facing right now and how you're helping them to maybe overcome some of these challenges because there's no doubt there are challenges ahead. And there are challenges we don't even know what they look like, what shape they are, what environment where they are, and how we need to our love together of this balance between inspiration and adaptability and leaders are facing things that they don't know the shape of it, they don't know what it looks like, and how are they able to adapt, how you are able to help them find their inspiration, in order to navigate that. So give us some real examples of what people might be going through, what some of your clients are going through, and how you're supporting them on a practical sense, to help them prepare for this crazy, complex world that we're now living in.

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Tony  

Exactly, no and it's funny. The first thing that came to mind was, I was thinking about the people who are adapting with getting back in the office and dealing with the emotions of reconnecting in the office. I have a few people like that, especially the people who used to be very social, I have one person I'm working with, who actually was an HR professional, and she is an HR professional. And she's really struggling with her identity inside the office. And she almost to the point where she's shown up the office a couple times and turned around and went home, because she doesn't feel as comfortable in her own skin around other people. Which I know seems like pretty strange but I don't think her case is that uncommon. We've been disconnected for so long that you need to almost restructure the way you interact with other folks. Because being on Zoom is not the same as being in person with other people.

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And so, just working with her and getting her to connect with, what are the things that she really wants, as she gets into the office? What are the things that she wants, in terms of when she gets reconnected with people? And how can she kind of play with her environment to allow herself to be more empowered in that space. And it's going to take time, I think she'll get there, but it's going to be a journey of our own, that she's going to have to navigate. But by building those little tools, around the path of connecting with what's going to get her excited about going to the office every day.

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Ross  

I think that's very true. There's such a range of people of when they think about going back into being an around an office and people of what that experience is going to be like. Because it's going to be different than before. We've gone through a transformation, and we're new individuals, we’re new versions of ourselves. We have new expectations, we have some things where they're blank, we don't know the answer. And so this experiential environment, and to go in with new eyes, to go in as the playful child, to go in and give ourselves permission for a new identity for a new version. And if we've created the kind of psychological safety that allows us to try those things on, that's great, but I think there needs to be this period of time, in which that we can allow an opportunity for people to morph, to play things out, to figure out what that new rhythm looks like when they go in.

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And I know my wife, she has gone through a lot of changes recently, she was diagnosed in March with cancer, and has gone through a lot of different things about herself, her career, her roles, she's been in financial services for decades. And is it really her? Right through to things like her wardrobe is changing. Now, part of this is “Oh had a test and shown that she's got an aversion to polyester,” and there's too much polyester in her body and that's causing issues. So it's, “Ah I need to go out and get cotton and all of these things.” But even if you strip away that she's recreating who she is. And it's really interesting to be there to support and not have a destination in mind. But just to be able to play with what am I creating next? Do I volunteer at animal wildlife centers? What is it and what do I connect with? 

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And so, as we wrap up in our conversation, Tony, if someone feels similar to what you just described of that HR leader, they don't know what their skin looks like. They're going into places, whether that's physical in the office or in Zoom and they don't know maybe if they are who they want to be anymore. Someone who is obsessed in an unhealthy addiction to have self help books, written your own book, all of these things.

Where can people start to try and unpick some of those challenges that they might be facing to have a conversation with themselves. You talked about lighting up and reflect. Give us one or two other little simple tips to help us think about our thinking, to think about if we're facing some of those challenges, what should we do? How should we deal with that?

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Tony  

I just love this. And first of all, I love how you said about the conversation with ourselves, because that's one of the things I'm always thinking about. And that's what really, I always say, my tagline is inspiration through honest conversation. And I really think that it's also about courageous conversations. And that's not always with other people. Sometimes it starts with us having conversation with ourselves. And that's really the point where you can really get the biggest impact because we don't have that conversation to say, “What am I feeling right now?” 

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And that now I'm going to get to the real tool here, which is to say, and this is actually some of the advice that I've given to people who have feeling this way around the reconnection is that you might want to use the acronym STOP. And I think this is not something I've invented, but might come from mindfulness somewhere. But STOP, Stop, Take a breath, Observe, Proceed. Give yourself a moment to really understand what it is that I'm feeling into right now in this moment. And before I proceed into that, into the space, before I proceed, you don't want to just submerge yourself into an uncomfortable situation, an uncomfortable environment for you, if you haven't prepared yourself mentally to enter that space.

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So it comes from that place of just, you got to take a moment to check in with yourself before really committing to being in. And I know this sometimes is counterintuitive to some of the advice you might hear around, “Oh, get uncomfortable, growth happens in the…

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Ross  

Out of the comfort zone.

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Tony  

Out of the comfort zone. And that's all fine and good and I do believe that. But this is not what we're talking about here, we're talking about when you're feeling some anxiety around it’s a new situation, a situation that is just giving you some real emotional stress then that's not what we're, you don't want to be putting yourself under stress just yet. Stop, check-in with yourself before you proceed.

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Ross  

I like that and it makes me link that to the difference between blind adaption and deliberate adaption. A deliberate adaption is one of observation. So that STOP, stop, take a breath, observe, proceed. And a deliberate adaption is one with thought, with intentionality behind it, doesn't mean that deliberate adaption is because you know what the end result is going to be, but you've just considered why you're doing it. And then hatching a plan of how, that we might have a vision and hope we might have the agency of the skills to do it, we might not. But we can reach out for help if we observe where there might be gaps.

And then I'd like to end on the point of the power of conversations, having conversations that are candid, that are ones with bravery, with ourselves and with others, and sometimes it can be just a stranger. And that opportunity to think about that, that a stranger can be yourself.

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Tony

That's beautiful.

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Ross

To think about, “Okay, I'm going to have a conversation with a stranger,” and it's me in five years time, or it's me five years ago. Can I decouple myself from that by thinking of them as a separate entity and a stranger? So whilst we were brought up to stranger danger, don't talk with strangers, Tony and I now say, “Okay, let's talk to some strangers of ourselves,” to just take the opportunity and all laughing and joking aside, this having conversations with people that we can show up in a way to ask the hard questions.

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And don't forget the power of the five why's, the Japanese piece of, right, let's get our inner child, let's get the two-year-old, “Why, why, Daddy, why?” And do that with ourselves as a stranger and maybe we don't know the answer instantly but we can take our time. When we take a breath that could be a day, could be two days when we ask ourselves that question. And we observe what's going on before we proceed. If people want to get in touch with you, Tony, what's the best way and where do they get your book as well? So tell us those things.

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Tony  

Thank you so much. So first of all, the best stop for me is InspiredPurposeCoach.com and you can take my assessment there, which is a leadership journey assessment, you can check out where you are right now and where you'd like to be. And you can assess your gap and figure out what you need to do. So that's for me, I'm also on LinkedIn as well. And all the other social media platforms. My book is available on Amazon. And you can also find a link to the book on my website.

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Ross  

Fantastic. It's been a real pleasure. And I always find this balance when you're “Yeah, 25-minute podcast that's the thing to do.” And I've said, 45 to 50 minutes and does anybody listen that long. I could talk to you for hours, Tony. It's been really insightful and a joy of jazz, to go on a discovery of thought, ideas and sharing. So thank you for that opportunity. It's certainly things that give me light, this conversations with people like you, so thank you for giving me that gift.

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Tony  

It was my pleasure and such an honor to be here with you, my friend.

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Ross  

Take care. Bye-bye.

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Tony 

Thanks.

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Voiceover  

Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive in the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo-yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill, and breakthrough? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ visit "AQai.io" To gain your personalized report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability for limited time enter code "Podcast65" for a complimentary AQ me assessment. AQ AI transforming the way people, teams, and organizations navigate change.

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Outro

Thank you for listening to this episode of Decoding AQ. Please make sure you subscribe to your favorite podcast directory, and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please do leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.

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